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Who dares debate this man?

Submitted by: MikeC (Admin) on 17-Dec-09 01:46:35 PM

Maybe I’m afflicted by an inherent rebellious streak, but after watching part 2 of Earth: The Climate Wars on BBC 2 last night - which was supposed to be a presentation of the so-called “sceptic” side of the man-made climate-warming argument - and Newsnight’s laughable attempt to win over a handful of ordinary Joes in a kitchen, I have given up hope of ever hearing a balanced discussion of the topic through the British media.

What we need is an open, honest debate between people who know their stuff – from both sides – so we can judge what the hell all this pain and frenzy in Copenhagen is really about, and whether the regulations and money Gordon Brown is keen to impose on the world could be better divested.

Who knows, we might just find that some peoples’ faith in lobbyists, is just that…

Lord Monckton addresses a Greenpeace-campaigner on global warming

Like most of us with an opinion, Lord Monckton is just a mouthpiece reliant on the work of scientists for his information. But you can’t tell me that he, and the scientists in his camp, should not be heard – particularly when he has so obviously studied the science more than other mouthpieces in mainstream media: the politicians.

We need to hear these voices, not let others shout “LALALALA” over them – that is dangerous.

Youth delegates at Copenhagen crash conference

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Posts: 3
This reminds me of my days at university
Reply #1 on : Thu December 17, 2009, 15:00:49
Thanks Mike for another informative and entertaining post.

As i say it reminds me of a psychology lecturer who one day when I was discussing conspiracy theories with him left me with this particular gem.

You can find the evidence to support any argument or position, all you have to do is look hard enough. If you believe there are conspiracies then you will go out and find the evidence to support that point of view. If you believe the opposite then there is the evidence there to support that viewpoint too.

Having practiced in the realm of health care for many years prior to becoming involved in this industry, an industry where the focus is always on evidence based practice I have always held the view that sources of evidence are an important issue in forming ones opinion.

What has been presented here is what are two sources of evidence for climate change. How do we know what we know? What quality is the source of that information? What bias do it hold?

All important questions that we must ask a lot more.

Another question we should ask though is this. If why eventually find ourselves in a situation where the science unequivocally supports the argument that climate change does not exist we still face the challenges of growing energy consumption and inadequate supply. So managing what we have better has to remain a priority.
Posts: 2
Re: Who dares debate this man?
Reply #2 on : Thu December 17, 2009, 15:33:44
You are absolutely right, Peter.

I studied Philosophy where the lecturer used to tie us all in knots on subjects such as - to pick just one - both the existence, and non-existence of god. Try as we might, our feeble minds couldn't bust the logic of either argument deployed.

Wittgenstein said each side of an argument employ language-games constructed to support their own thesis, and knock-down the other.

Ever since man settled to farm land for food, we have tried to control and predict the weather; be it through prayer or dance.

Whilst we might look back at those old cowboy and indian films with affection, smirking at the naivety of indian raindances, are we so arrogant today to believe we can control the weather/climate any more effectively... on a global scale?

And yes, you are again right that we must get a grip on both the energy and global resource depletion and distribution problem... oh, and population.

Posts: 3
Re: Who dares debate this man?
Reply #3 on : Sun February 07, 2010, 15:09:00
> What we need is an open, honest debate between people who know their stuff – from both sides...

There's the thing. There aren't two equal sides. On one is ~100% of published climate scientists along with every credible scientific academy on the planet.

On the other is Lord Monckton, a weatherman, a retired mining executive, a wealthy geology professor with financial interests in mining operations and a mass of people with opinions and blogs.

That's the reality of the 'debate'.

Posts: 3
Re: Who dares debate this man?
Reply #4 on : Sun February 07, 2010, 15:12:03
P.S. You should consider whether anything that Lord Monckton says or thinks is credible or worthy of consideration:

Posts: 2
Re: Who dares debate this man?
Reply #5 on : Sun February 07, 2010, 16:25:45
Thanks for those links, DavidC. I have clicked on them all but only one (altenergy) attempts to tackle his research and claims - good. This is what I'm talking about.

I'd be interested in Monkton's rebuttal (not that I'm sayng altenergy proves or disproves Monkton's findings - some of it is nit-picking at semantics, arguing the definition of 'more than half of' and 'most' - see Wittgenstein comment above.

The others are just typical of the "LALALA" slur campaigns that dog the debate and make people sceptical. A poor selection of links, with respect, designed to discredit, rather than disprove.

Monbiot? Come on, he's one of the worst offenders of the "LALALA" army.

I don't buy your, "~100% of published climate scientists along with every credible scientific academy on the planet," argument, at all.

"Published", as in published because it's acceptable to the doctrine? Peer-reviewed by 2 or 3 others with the time to do so (if you're lucky to find them)?

The so-called "credible scientific" academies have been found somewhat wanting, though, no?

This, just today: New errors in IPCC climate change report:

And let's not pretend that many other scientists are not sceptical of the IPCC science, models and conclusions; several former IPCC campers too.
Last Edit: February 07, 2010, 16:41:45 by admin  

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