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3000 potential number of NDEAs in pipeline

Submitted by: MikeC (Admin) on 04-Nov-08 07:19:44 PM

Following last month's guest blog-post from John Morren, who revealed that, as of October 1st 2008, there were officially 471 accredited non-domestic energy assessors, it has now emerged that this figure - released only after he lodged a successful appeal to have his previously denied Freedom of Information (FOI) request overturned - may have been much too conservative.

According to an email John received from the CLG last week - dated 31st October 2008 - the total number of accredited non-domestic energy assessors (NDEAs) - as of 1st October 2008 - stood at 751; 280 more than originally published in his FOI reply (and since reaffirmed on the CLG website - see below).

Qualified NDEAs

The email also reveals that 999 NDEAs were qualified (exams passed and portfolio completed but not yet accredited*) on the same date (Oct 1st).

How many NDEAs needed?

According to one question John asked in his FOI request - "How many assessors did they estimate would be needed from October 1st?" - the CLG estimated 'between 300 and 550'.

Which suggests there are now 201 NDEAs above even the upper CLG estimate.

In summarising the reasons for granting John's FOI appeal, the adjudicator (then) judged it safe to do so because the number of assessors accreditated at that time (471) "is probably sufficient for the current market climate". The summary is dated 6th October 2008.

This assessment was confirmed last week on the CLG website, which reads:

'Were there enough energy assessors to support 1st October 2008 EPC roll-out to all commercial properties?'

Yes. Our analysis suggested we needed in a range of 300 and 550 assessors and we had 471 assessors accredited on 1 October which was well within this range.

Energy Performance Certificates and commercial buildings - Communities and Local Government

Number of NDEAs in training

In what many DEAs will recognise as echoes from the past, last week's email also revealed that, as of October 1st 2008, there were 1,250 Non Domestic Energy Assessors in training.

Assuming all those currently in the pipeline go on to eventually accredit, there will be 3,000* NDEAs in total (999*+1250+751=3000).

Six times number needed

That would be more than six times the number needed to satisfy demand, as assessed in both the letter dated 6th October, and published on the CLG's own website.

Commenting on the potential over-supply of non-dom energy assessors, Joseph Pestell of Energenius Ltd - who has completed training and currently putting together his portfolio for the final leg - said: "This doesn't surprise me. I've seen the way some training companies are advertising this; one company is saying - and I quote - 'a recession-proof career opportunity'." Adding: "It's a scandal".

The FOI appeal letter estimates that a "minimum" of 18,000 Display Energy Certificates will be needed per year.


Timeline of disclosed NDEA numbers
Date Qualified Accredited Training
26 June 08 441 135
27 July 08 608
29 July 08 247
1 October 08 999 751 1,250

[Added: What is not so clear is how many are accredited at each level, i.e. Level 3, 4 and 5.]

* Assumes the 999 qualified does not include the 751 already accredited.

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Posts: 12
Re: 3000 potential number of NDEAs in pipeline
Reply #1 on : Wed November 05, 2008, 15:55:11
The 18,000 DEC figure is due to the site based approach for year 1 - assuming CLG stick to their word (!!) it should, next year, be more like the 42,500 0riginally expected.

Apparently only 3,200 had been carried out by October 1st the original date for them all to be completed.
Posts: 1
Re: 3000 potential number of NDEAs in pipeline
Reply #2 on : Wed November 05, 2008, 16:19:57
Thanks for refining that, John (DECs).
Last Edit: November 05, 2008, 16:22:38 by admin  

Posts: 12
Re. 3000 NDEAs in pipeline
Reply #3 on : Fri November 14, 2008, 10:29:03
Whilst it is easy to knock the trainers we should all be familiar with their spin by now. However, this doesn't seem to stop people signing up to do the training course even though the same situation re. NDEAs will occur as happened with DEAs - too many and too little work! If only 500 NDEAs are needed and there is already one in your area (as there is for Joseph Pestell - also of Quidos as well as Energenius) then where do you expect the work to come from? You're just going to share the existing business. Then we'll see the usual price cutting (led by panels etc.)
Any one getting a sense of deja-vu?

Posts: 12
Reply #4 on : Tue November 25, 2008, 10:01:36
I feel to overcome this situation and gain credibility within the industry the qualification should be harder to acquire and have a minimum entry level, HND, Degree. I personally have seen some DEA's who cannot determine between a gas fire and electric..... I KNOW!!!
I guess its to late now but from my experience (produced 300 EPC's last year) only negative feedback has come back and the majority of people think they are a waste of time and carried out by former civil servants re-trained. They have no credibility and I would estimate that over 50% of the EPC's lodged so far would not be accurate due to DEA error.
I was going to train as NDEA but feel the fee is to great without any guarantee on workload. I also feel it would be very difficult for an Independent NDEA to gain work freelance as this market is very different to that of Domestic.
Posts: 1
Re: 3000 potential number of NDEAs in pipeline
Reply #5 on : Sun November 30, 2008, 10:00:46
I certainly agree that there appears to be no proper regulation of DEA and HI work. There are too many accreditation bodies. It is quite staggeringly obvious that there are also too many DEAs, and soon NDEAs, for the work available and that there should be a stop to any more training.

I agree with Stuat, in part, that the qualification should be made harder but not to the standard that you must have already gained a degree.
My suggestion is to make the training more intensive and maybe to degree level. The final exam, which was 20 multiple choice questions in 30 minutes and a 70% pass rate, personally took me 6 minutes to complete. Here is your starting point.

Posts: 12
3000 potential number of NDEAs in pipeline
Reply #6 on : Thu January 29, 2009, 21:53:54
I've been considering doing a NDEA course at a cost of £5000 + VAT. I've been told that there is a shortage of qualified NDEAs and a massive workload making for a very lucrative opportunity. Can anyone tell me if this is true?

Posts: 12
Too many NDEAs
Reply #7 on : Sun February 01, 2009, 15:55:34
Having just completed my level 4 training I can only go on what I have been told by speaking to numerous people currently in the market. There is apparently an abundance of work and will continue to be so. There was a chap on the course who runs his own company - growing day by day and also a guy just taking the level 4 who has been kept busy since starting mid 08.
Hope this helps

Posts: 12
Too many NDEAs
Reply #8 on : Sat February 21, 2009, 23:26:28
I'm currently training to do Level 3. My observation on my course was that quite a few people are doing the qualification to service existing clients of their consultancy to offer a full range of services and others are doing it to see them through the recession and will drop it when their normal and more interesting and higher fee work picks up again.

Posts: 12
Reply #9 on : Sun March 01, 2009, 17:31:05
It seems the government have done it again. Im sorry to say the work is drying up as no-one has restrained the trainers and no-one has understood the property market - or the economy. You would have thought - second time lucky eh?

Posts: 12
Reply #10 on : Mon March 23, 2009, 15:02:19
I should be a qualified Level 3 NDEA by the end of April, really hope it has all been worth it and that I will have plenty of work, after reading the above, I don't know what to think!

Posts: 12
Reply #11 on : Mon June 22, 2009, 15:56:29
Ok, i appreciate there will be more ndea than work, but where theres competition, theres a market. And to be honest, its seems the only people moaning on this site are the people who have trained and want all the market to themselves. We all have the right to be trained and join the rat race of the energy market. Good luck to anyone who chooses this career, but i would definately advise for new comers, to have a back up incase work load dries up.

Posts: 12
NDEA's in Training
Reply #12 on : Sun June 28, 2009, 08:43:48
I get the stuff about too many NDEA's in training but it is somewhat inflated. On my training course there were 9 guys of whom only one has so far passed both exams (3 & 4) and myself just completing Level 4. The other 7 who would count as officially "in training" are never going to take it to qualification. Heck they haven't even booked an exam yet let alone completed their portfolios. Must be nice to have £4,500 to chuck away is all I can add to that!

Posts: 12
Ndea training
Reply #13 on : Thu October 22, 2009, 09:51:04
I will be starting my training in january and hope to qualify 8-9 months later.
can anyone who is doing well in the industry give me any feedback?
I am confident that i will be able to run as an independant with my strong b2b sales background. Can any one let me know the pitfalls to look out for.

Posts: 12
DEA/NDEA farce
Reply #14 on : Wed February 10, 2010, 13:16:49
As a building designer by profession and currently working on a high performance energy self sufficient project I have been interested in taking the DEA&NDEA as additonal qualifications. My first impression of this "industry" is that it really is all "smoke & mirrors". Why has the Government not created a proper training system throughout the country rather than let these so called "trainers" fleece the public wanting a change of career in hard times. You really do need your bumps felt if you can be trained up in a "profession" in 3days Dea, 5days Ndea with a bit of coursework thrown in!! My degree took 3 intense years, 1 year in practice, 2 years diploma, another year in practice before qualifying. This "profession" is on par with the financial sector!!

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